Why Definitions are Important.
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| 8 Week Old Homo Sapien |
Laws can only be understood within the context of the words they are written with. Words can only be understood within the context of the definitions society understands them by. What happens when people are confused by definitions, is that we can create logic or theories that defies everything else we previously understood about the world. I present an example of simple words, which now have no meaning at all.
- Definition of Homicide: the killing of one human being by another.
- Definition of Kill: to deprive of life in any manner.
- Definition of Human Being: a member of the species Homo sapiens.
- Definition of Homo Sapien: the modern species of humans, the only extant species of the primate family Hominidae. (not dependent on age but on genetic makeup. From the moment of conception the living organism is considered human)
- Define Life – the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganicobjects and dead organisms.
- Define Deprive – to take something away from.
- Homicide Explained: the killing (taking away of life) of one human being (any homo sapien).
- Define Abortion – See definition 1.
Jesse Watkins 
Okay, okay. So, say a 10 year old girl is raped by her father, and gets pregnant. You can honestly say that, if she came to you with a question of what to do, you would advise a 10 year old girl to carry her father's baby to term? By your definition above, that child is still a human, and aborting him / her would still be murder … but what about the pain and suffering it would cause the 10 year old? The child that no one can argue, is alive, aware and would absolutely suffer irreparable damage? Or, okay .. what if, God forbid, something were to happen with your wife's pregnancy, and you found out now that if she were to continue the pregnancy, the child would be fine, but it would take her life … you would let that happen? I know these are very specific examples, but they're just 2 of thousands that I could come up with … circumstances in which you can't just apply a simple list of criteria, wipe your hands clean and move on knowing you did the right thing. I'm curious what you would do in these circumstance, being such a staunch supporter of the pro-life movement.
-Stephanie
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Stephanie, first of all I was delighted to see this was milder than what I had expected after your facebook comment. Secondly, those are tough questions. I can't tell you what I would do in those circumstances, because we don't know about those situations till we get there. But I can tell you that out of the 54 MILLION abortions since Roe vs. Wade, I do not believe that any quantifying percentage comes form the circumstances you just named.
The question is: is it right to take the life of a human because they are unwanted?
I thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts and defense of life, and I know that you give accurate consideration to things with logic and reason.
If you get a chance, take a look at the 180 Movie – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI
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You are right Jesse Watkins for your comments. In ANY case we trust God to take care of the situation and He will. Many times we jump ahead of God and don't give Him the chance to work it out according to HIS will.
God Bless You Jesse,
Margie
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My Husband and I had an experience of counselling a lady who was pregnant and developed a kidney problem. The Drs told her there was 0 chance of both surviving if she had the baby and only 50/50 chance of one surviving. We prayed and asked God to take care of it that He knew all about it and we trusted HIM to do just that. 9 mos later she had the baby who is now 21 years old and perfectly healthy. 6 mos after the delivery she had her kidneys tested and the problem was solved. Don't tell me God is not in control. Many times He just wants us to TRUST Him! Praise His Holy name!
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Actually there are 1000 n 1000s of cases just like she mentioned. And she brings up the very good point what would you say to that 10yr old or do if tyler God forbid was faced with that choice? Do I believer in abortion no but there are definitely cases where it is the only option. and to say there isn't is wrong.
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Well, of course I'm not gonna say something atrocious on here … just didn't think your young parishioners needed to see something about child molestation and rape on their facebook walls. 🙂
Anyway — I'm not saying that the majority of abortions happen because of extenuating circumstances like I posted above. I'm just asking you if you would still apply those criteria in those situations. Because if you wouldn't, then the logic falls apart. You can't have a proof that says a+b ALWAYS equals c with NO exceptions, EXCEPT if “a” is this or that. That is a paradoxical statement. It's either one way or it's not. That's the thing about logic and facts. There's no picking or choosing, facts are what they are.
If you believe that life begins at conception, and that abortion is murder, then that's your right to believe that. The thing I have a problem with is you trying to prove your beliefs by way of logic or reason. There is no logic or reason in faith. That's why it's called faith. The faithful make a leap, after logic and reason run out, and choose to believe whatever it is they believe.
As for your question, is it right to take the life of a human because they're unwanted — that's taking a big leap of faith and assuming that a human becomes human at conception. My answer to that is no, it's not right … but I don't believe a 4-week old fetus is a human, so your question / my answer doesn't apply to the situations above.
And that's wonderful that the woman in the example above managed to live through her child's birth, against the odds. But, it's a rare example, and doesn't prove anything. How can you look at something like the Holocaust, or the Rwandan genocide, or even the attack on the World Trade Center, and then look at this one example of one person and say that it proves God is in control? And if he's in control, why would he put her and the baby in that risky position in the first place?
But, I could have a field day asking questions like that. So, I digress.
-Steph
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Steph – I fully agree faith is based on logic and reason. A sky-diver has faith in his parachute because his logic and reason of the parachute manufacturer, his experience in jumping, and the methods he used to fold and pack the parachute enable him to jump. Of course there is a risk involved, just like there is a risk everyday when you get into your car that it is not going to blow up. But you do have faith that it will safely get you from point a to point b. Sorry to digress also just wanted to mention that.
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You're Comparing faith to assumptions. A person getting into a car assumes it has safety features in place to protect them. The skydiver assumes that his/her parachute is safe. Assumptions are based upon previous experiences, whether they be good or bad. That isn't faith. Faith is accepting a certain idea, without need for any evidence or outcome predictability.
~Ben
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Ben, the first definition of faith that I found was “complete trust or confidence in something.” I don't assume my wife will not have an affair, I have faith (complete trust of confidence). This is what it means to be a faithful spouse. The definition for assume is “suppose to be the case without proof.” The proof of God in my life is everywhere – through the salvation of my alcoholic father, through the miracles I've seen, through his Word, through creation. All these things are proof to build up faith. This is why the Bible says :”Faith is KNOWING what we hope for.” Not assuming.
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Alright, so we're going with definitions then? How about the second definition of faith: “belief that is not based on proof”
All I'm saying is, you can't prove something that you only have faith in. And I can actually use your skydiver example here. I agree. We all take leaps of faith every day. You can't know the future, you only have faith in it. You can hope, based on your knowledge of jumping and of the parachute you're using, that it won't fail. But, you can't know the future. So, you have faith that it won't.
You can't know that your belief in this abortion thing, or even in God is correct. You can only have faith that it is. Those are two different things.
You still haven't responded to my original question. Given the plethora of circumstances in which it might not be clear whether abortion is the right or wrong choice, do you still believe that your “proof” for defining abortion as murder applies?
If you can honestly say that, no matter what, as a man of God, you would never advise someone to get an abortion — despite the circumstances, whether it be at the cost of the mother's life, or of a child's well-being — then yes, your proof works. If there is even a glimmer of a possible exception, than just stop trying to prove it. You don't need to prove anything. You have faith (belief that is not based on proof, complete trust or confidence in something). So why do you continue to try? Is it not enough to just have faith?
In your last comment, you cite the bible as your proof. To believe in the bible, you need faith. You were trying, with your definition in the original post, to use a source outside of your faith (logic) to prove a belief that is inherent within your faith. But, when it gets down to it, and you pick it apart, you ultimately have to fall back on your faith-based doctrine. And that's FINE. You just can't have your cake and eat it, too.
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The idea of trying to prove a point by saying “God says its wrong” or I see evidence in anecdotal accounts is contrary to logic. Arguing semantics at this point is a little silly in my opinion. As far as your definition of life is concerned, is using chemo therapy to destroy your cancer cells murder as well. We're a funny species, for all of our talk of the sanctity of life, we sure do kill a lot of things. What makes one form of life sacred and others not? It's okay to kill ants and mosquitoes. Why do they have less of a right to live than we do? Ultimately you cannot legislate religion, or obtuse interpretations of religion. And also, while we're off of the topic, how does one cherry pick which parts of the bible are God's word. I mean, when you see your neighbor wearing cloth cut from 2 different biases, do you stone him then, or wait until he's sleeping? The bottom line I'm trying to get at here, is that the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
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@Most recent anonymous – You said there are not absolutes. By saying that you just asserted an absolute. By your own logic you have disproved yourself.
Do you believe you are something more than a mosquito? I would hope so. And if so, what do you base that belief on?
I'm not legislating the Bible, I am legislating the constitution which includes the right to live. A cancer cell is not a human, but a fetus is a human. None of your examples are valid in this argument.
Thanks for trying though.
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